A great read. I was also thinking while reading this if our romanticism for a particular country dies when we learn the language. Perhaps we then see all the nuances and it heightens our self awareness and may find ourselves loving the new country more or enjoy it less.
I really love this idea and it's something I've thought a lot about as well. For example, when people say Italian is singsongy or operatic or even beautiful, I can never hear it that way, because it's been so colored by my everyday experiences, for better or worse. That's also in some ways a reflection of my heightened understanding of the culture, which is no longer a fantasy for me, despite how much Italy is idealized by a US audience. Thanks for reading and for your thoughts! :)
As a multilingual person, I completely understand what you say about Italian not being singsongy for you. When I learned German as a teenager it was my third-and-a-half language (after English (native), Czech, and French) and I fell in love with its logic. And then after being in Germany as an exchange student, I fell in love with the sound. To this day I am the only person I know who thinks German is a sexy language.
I really enjoyed this read! I am also a language learner (Spanish and Portuguese — not Italian yet, I have familial roots there so I’d like to try). I like Lahiri’s translations from Italian to English, but something about her journey to learning Italian rubbed me the wrong way and you explained it very well.
It's hard to convey everything fully in a newsletter, but I am a big, big fan of Lahiri's work and think she's a stunning writer. But, as with anything, there are always caveats. Thank you for reading! Would love to hear your language experience as well. I'm super inspired and encouraged by other adult language learners.
I started learning Spanish as a teenager in school, continued through college (ended up with an accidental second major after taking a Spanish class every semester and studying abroad). I lived in Colombia for 8 months after graduating (was an English TA), then went to grad school for translation. I started studying Portuguese during my master’s, mostly because it was close to Spanish and I had friends who spoke it. I do use Spanish for my job, but I don’t speak it aloud often, so practice is needed (and not always achieved). My Portuguese isn’t as good as my Spanish so same thing but more so! I’ve been tentatively returning to Duolingo and hoping to actually find time to read the Spanish and Portuguese books I’ve bought.
I’m currently living in the Netherlands and Dutch is my third language. I speak English and that’s fine but somehow I always felt that Dutch was a step harder to learn, so I’m in constant fight with it, despite being fluent. And only when I speak my native Portuguese does it feel like it’s so close sometimes I can’t bear it, but it’s also the only language I can fully write in without issue, saying exactly what I want to say. English became this neutral language. I speak it the most but it’s for me lighter language, no fight with it except sometimes in writing. I really liked reading your essay, got me considering a lot of things.
I loved reading this - I can relate to this a lot and, even though I did talk about it with friends living abroad, I had never seen it so clearly written down. I’m Italian, working with English-speaking people and living in France. My favourite version of me is in English, I am still trying to figure out who I am in French and I have so much emotional baggage tied to Italian that I can hardly hear myself speak. It still makes for wonderful insight about ourselves and how we navigate society/relationships.
Thank you so much for reading and this comment means so much to me!!! I love what you said about the "emotional baggage" in Italian — I think that's something I've heard from so many speakers of multiple languages, that the native language comes with so much baggage, and it's Lahiri's point as well. But fascinated that your favorite version of yourself is in English.
I really cannot begin to express how much I enjoyed reading this. You put into words many of my own experiences and also made me reflect on how our experiences have differed. In Italian I feel like I do not mince words and being direct is far more acceptable than when I use English. It has released a sorta care free attitude in me that doesn't exist in my native language. Once again, thank you for sharing
Thank you so much for both your thoughtful post and this comment!!! I do feel like in general Italian culture is more direct — as much as we can generalize for a whole culture — so I know exactly what you mean. but I think the familial element you mentioned before adds a totally different layer :) the reality is that every language operates within a grammatical framework of rules and our use of it is also entirely individual hahaha, which is what makes it so interesting!!! i could talk/write about this all day
Elizabeth, I really liked this! I have learned several languages and am always conscious of my consciousness of being conscious of speaking them. I suppose that watching myself speaking them does create an emotional distance—though at the same time, it provides potential fodder for self-criticism ("how could you have forgotten that word!").
I'm intrigued by the idea that hurtful things said to us in another language hurt less for being in that language. It's a bit like a piece I wrote two weeks ago about swearing in other languages (specifically Italian!), and how it packs less of an emotional wallop. I look forward to reading more of your stuff.
Thank you so much for the kind words! And yes, the self-criticism is a very important point that I didn't really delve into—I feel that often, though some of it has subsided with sheer time spent, because I'm more able to accept that speaking is imperfect in any language, including our native tongue. I checked out some of your work and really enjoyed it, but I will look for your swearing piece! It's a very similar concept. Thanks again for taking the time.
You're right, of course: We need to be forgiving of our own mistakes, and language learning gives us a lot of practice at that. An aspect that is not often discussed.
Really beautifully written, this post so resonated with me! I love what you said about stepping out of the mental prison in thinking and speaking in a non-native language, that has been my experience too. I find I take myself less seriously in Spanish, and I don’t overthink things in the way I might in English. It’s enriching getting to experience the same world from two different lenses and what that brings!
Thank you so much for reading and so glad it resonated! Love to hear that you feel similarly, as it means I'm not alone in my own strange thoughts hahaha. It's somewhat counter-intuitive to think that speaking another language would actually limit our overthinking, but that's been my experience as well. :)
I really enjoyed this essay, thank you so much. I've spent a lifetime fighting and also studying my mother's language (Japanese) and have many, many scars to show for it. I don't know that I'll ever settle into a comfortable place with it. I think trauma is a good word for some of what I went through. You've made me think about maybe starting a different language entirely so that I can find more peace with Japanese. I started to study Korean and was told by my teacher to "lose the Japanese accent," which stopped me in my tracks. Maybe I'll go back to Arabic, which I studied in my 20s. Again, thank you for this. Very thoughtful.
This is so fascinating, and obviously, the familial connection adds a totally different layer that I don't have with Italian. I'm excited to hear more about your experiences! Thanks again for reading.
Love this insight into your experience learning and speaking Italian, Elizabeth! I'm learning Spanish and this has given me even more motivation to become fluent. It's such an appealing concept to approach a new language as a blank slate!
This is wonderful insight. Again. I am the opposite. I feel less confident & almost childish in Italian because of the level of my language. (Something Intake complete responsibility for) I read recently that someone felt like it was like living without your glasses on. I love that description.
Thank you, as always, for the kind words! <3 First of all, I feel I have to issue a disclaimer, which is that my Italian is far from perfect (and then every language is a continual learning experience, even our native tongue!) But I love the "without glasses" idea. I still feel like that sometimes!
Thank you! It's probably only because I write that I think about language far too much, but I love that idea :) I often repeat phrases my friends say and it always makes me smile, as if I'm carrying a small part of them with me.
Me ha encantado. Will think about this. I will think about this freedom as a bilingual writer. Born and raised in Venezuela but mostly writing in English. Hmmmm
You write beautifully, Elizabeth. I enjoyed reading this piece. However, I have some reservations about using the word trauma in the context of learning a language—unless it refers to a situation where one is forced to learn a language, such as being schooled in a language that is not their mother tongue, which is the reality for many children around the world.
I also don’t think Lahiri is oblivious to her privilege, though I agree that there is privilege in being able to move your family to Rome, live in an upscale neighborhood, and dedicate time to learning a language. That said, we could argue that she has earned that privilege—she has written successful books, so why not choose to do what she wishes?
I read In altre parole, I racconti romani, and Dove mi trovo in Italian and found them all beautiful. My Italian isn’t fluent, I learned it passively as a child because it was the secret language my mother and grandmother used for adult conversations. So I have no knowledge of grammar rules—I just say sentences as I think I heard them in my childhood. In a way, perhaps my Italian is like Lahiri’s Bengali—childlike, even though it isn’t my mother tongue. But I do enjoy reading fiction and poetry in Italian from time to time.
I followed the link to Kellman’s article about Lahiri and found it unnecessarily negative. And this question by Kellman—"Or will she take up the discipline of yet another defamiliarizing language, such as Finnish or Amharic?"—seems rather ridiculous. What kind of gratuitous or flippant remark is that? She has no connection to either of those languages. Lahiri has spoken about choosing Italian because she became passionate about it in her youth.
Thanks so much for your thoughtful response and critique. On trauma: obviously, trauma is a word that has a lot of connotations, particularly in today's day and age, so I appreciate what you're saying about it being perhaps too strong here. As far as Lahiri, as I said in another comment, I'm a big fan of her work and think she's a beautiful and profound writer—in both English and Italian. I understand what you're saying about the Kellman article, but I think there are articles that take a different tone and deal with a similar topic, like this one: https://hopscotchtranslation.com/2024/03/26/privilege-authority-and-the-authorial-self/. That said, I'll definitely think more about these points. Thank you again for reading!
"Language learning, in my mind, was simply a version of the old adage: Wherever you go, there you are. Yes, maybe you expressed yourself differently, limited in some ways by your capacity or your linguistic context, but ultimately, there was still an Essential Self that came through." That's so true. I liken it to moving to a new apartment. At first, everything is new, shiny, bright, and clean, and you feel like this time you can really start with a clean slate. But then you bring all your luggage and inevitably your old self moves in as well :)
I really felt what you have written. I moved to Italy from Cuba 8 years ago. In my case I feel both language spanish and italian like my mother language and with both i have a love/hate relationship. I would like to say more because your essay descrive perfectly the ocean of emotion that I have but in english is little limited for me.
È bizzarro come la lingua che scegliamo parlare abbia una memoria tutta sua fatta da ricordi e esperienza che a sua volta sono fatte dalle parole che meglio descrivono ciò che proviamo. Scegliamo le parole con cura perché ogni una è un pezzetto di noi. Per questo credo che tendiamo a sentire più vicino o più distaccato una lingua piuttosto che un altra finché non impariamo del tutto tutte le sue sfumature.
The nuance plus succinct eloquence of this write-up is 100/10! So many thoughtful gems in this piece that I’ll be coming back to as I go into year three of my own Italian language learning journey and keep traveling back-forth between the U.S./Italy.
Lovely read, could very much relate to what you describe as feeling free “to feel and write” in Italian. Being a Portuguese native, your text made me realise that I to “feel and write” with less weight than when I do in Portuguese. But to master one’s own native language in a way can be very liberating and healing no? I love this subject. Thank you.
A great read. I was also thinking while reading this if our romanticism for a particular country dies when we learn the language. Perhaps we then see all the nuances and it heightens our self awareness and may find ourselves loving the new country more or enjoy it less.
I really love this idea and it's something I've thought a lot about as well. For example, when people say Italian is singsongy or operatic or even beautiful, I can never hear it that way, because it's been so colored by my everyday experiences, for better or worse. That's also in some ways a reflection of my heightened understanding of the culture, which is no longer a fantasy for me, despite how much Italy is idealized by a US audience. Thanks for reading and for your thoughts! :)
As a multilingual person, I completely understand what you say about Italian not being singsongy for you. When I learned German as a teenager it was my third-and-a-half language (after English (native), Czech, and French) and I fell in love with its logic. And then after being in Germany as an exchange student, I fell in love with the sound. To this day I am the only person I know who thinks German is a sexy language.
I really enjoyed this read! I am also a language learner (Spanish and Portuguese — not Italian yet, I have familial roots there so I’d like to try). I like Lahiri’s translations from Italian to English, but something about her journey to learning Italian rubbed me the wrong way and you explained it very well.
It's hard to convey everything fully in a newsletter, but I am a big, big fan of Lahiri's work and think she's a stunning writer. But, as with anything, there are always caveats. Thank you for reading! Would love to hear your language experience as well. I'm super inspired and encouraged by other adult language learners.
I started learning Spanish as a teenager in school, continued through college (ended up with an accidental second major after taking a Spanish class every semester and studying abroad). I lived in Colombia for 8 months after graduating (was an English TA), then went to grad school for translation. I started studying Portuguese during my master’s, mostly because it was close to Spanish and I had friends who spoke it. I do use Spanish for my job, but I don’t speak it aloud often, so practice is needed (and not always achieved). My Portuguese isn’t as good as my Spanish so same thing but more so! I’ve been tentatively returning to Duolingo and hoping to actually find time to read the Spanish and Portuguese books I’ve bought.
I’m currently living in the Netherlands and Dutch is my third language. I speak English and that’s fine but somehow I always felt that Dutch was a step harder to learn, so I’m in constant fight with it, despite being fluent. And only when I speak my native Portuguese does it feel like it’s so close sometimes I can’t bear it, but it’s also the only language I can fully write in without issue, saying exactly what I want to say. English became this neutral language. I speak it the most but it’s for me lighter language, no fight with it except sometimes in writing. I really liked reading your essay, got me considering a lot of things.
I loved reading this - I can relate to this a lot and, even though I did talk about it with friends living abroad, I had never seen it so clearly written down. I’m Italian, working with English-speaking people and living in France. My favourite version of me is in English, I am still trying to figure out who I am in French and I have so much emotional baggage tied to Italian that I can hardly hear myself speak. It still makes for wonderful insight about ourselves and how we navigate society/relationships.
Thank you so much for reading and this comment means so much to me!!! I love what you said about the "emotional baggage" in Italian — I think that's something I've heard from so many speakers of multiple languages, that the native language comes with so much baggage, and it's Lahiri's point as well. But fascinated that your favorite version of yourself is in English.
I really cannot begin to express how much I enjoyed reading this. You put into words many of my own experiences and also made me reflect on how our experiences have differed. In Italian I feel like I do not mince words and being direct is far more acceptable than when I use English. It has released a sorta care free attitude in me that doesn't exist in my native language. Once again, thank you for sharing
Thank you so much for both your thoughtful post and this comment!!! I do feel like in general Italian culture is more direct — as much as we can generalize for a whole culture — so I know exactly what you mean. but I think the familial element you mentioned before adds a totally different layer :) the reality is that every language operates within a grammatical framework of rules and our use of it is also entirely individual hahaha, which is what makes it so interesting!!! i could talk/write about this all day
from one fellow language nerd to another i am so happy i have come across someone who thinks this much about this stuff
obsessed!!!! <3 can't wait to read more of your writing
Elizabeth, I really liked this! I have learned several languages and am always conscious of my consciousness of being conscious of speaking them. I suppose that watching myself speaking them does create an emotional distance—though at the same time, it provides potential fodder for self-criticism ("how could you have forgotten that word!").
I'm intrigued by the idea that hurtful things said to us in another language hurt less for being in that language. It's a bit like a piece I wrote two weeks ago about swearing in other languages (specifically Italian!), and how it packs less of an emotional wallop. I look forward to reading more of your stuff.
Thank you so much for the kind words! And yes, the self-criticism is a very important point that I didn't really delve into—I feel that often, though some of it has subsided with sheer time spent, because I'm more able to accept that speaking is imperfect in any language, including our native tongue. I checked out some of your work and really enjoyed it, but I will look for your swearing piece! It's a very similar concept. Thanks again for taking the time.
You're right, of course: We need to be forgiving of our own mistakes, and language learning gives us a lot of practice at that. An aspect that is not often discussed.
Here's the piece on swearing I mentioned. I hope the Italian profanity doesn't offend you: https://livingelsewhere.substack.com/p/why-swearing-in-other-languages-feels
Really beautifully written, this post so resonated with me! I love what you said about stepping out of the mental prison in thinking and speaking in a non-native language, that has been my experience too. I find I take myself less seriously in Spanish, and I don’t overthink things in the way I might in English. It’s enriching getting to experience the same world from two different lenses and what that brings!
Thank you so much for reading and so glad it resonated! Love to hear that you feel similarly, as it means I'm not alone in my own strange thoughts hahaha. It's somewhat counter-intuitive to think that speaking another language would actually limit our overthinking, but that's been my experience as well. :)
I really enjoyed this essay, thank you so much. I've spent a lifetime fighting and also studying my mother's language (Japanese) and have many, many scars to show for it. I don't know that I'll ever settle into a comfortable place with it. I think trauma is a good word for some of what I went through. You've made me think about maybe starting a different language entirely so that I can find more peace with Japanese. I started to study Korean and was told by my teacher to "lose the Japanese accent," which stopped me in my tracks. Maybe I'll go back to Arabic, which I studied in my 20s. Again, thank you for this. Very thoughtful.
This is so fascinating, and obviously, the familial connection adds a totally different layer that I don't have with Italian. I'm excited to hear more about your experiences! Thanks again for reading.
Love this insight into your experience learning and speaking Italian, Elizabeth! I'm learning Spanish and this has given me even more motivation to become fluent. It's such an appealing concept to approach a new language as a blank slate!
Grazie, Elizabeth, for provoking some deep conversations. I shared this with my readers this afternoon. 👌
Thank you for sharing!!! Love to hear people's experiences with language-learning, which is forever an ongoing process.
This is wonderful insight. Again. I am the opposite. I feel less confident & almost childish in Italian because of the level of my language. (Something Intake complete responsibility for) I read recently that someone felt like it was like living without your glasses on. I love that description.
Thank you, as always, for the kind words! <3 First of all, I feel I have to issue a disclaimer, which is that my Italian is far from perfect (and then every language is a continual learning experience, even our native tongue!) But I love the "without glasses" idea. I still feel like that sometimes!
Really enjoyed this column. I hadn’t thought of language in such a personal way. But I have found myself imitating phrases used by people I admire.
Thank you! It's probably only because I write that I think about language far too much, but I love that idea :) I often repeat phrases my friends say and it always makes me smile, as if I'm carrying a small part of them with me.
Me ha encantado. Will think about this. I will think about this freedom as a bilingual writer. Born and raised in Venezuela but mostly writing in English. Hmmmm
Would love to hear about your experience! And thank you for the kind words :)
You write beautifully, Elizabeth. I enjoyed reading this piece. However, I have some reservations about using the word trauma in the context of learning a language—unless it refers to a situation where one is forced to learn a language, such as being schooled in a language that is not their mother tongue, which is the reality for many children around the world.
I also don’t think Lahiri is oblivious to her privilege, though I agree that there is privilege in being able to move your family to Rome, live in an upscale neighborhood, and dedicate time to learning a language. That said, we could argue that she has earned that privilege—she has written successful books, so why not choose to do what she wishes?
I read In altre parole, I racconti romani, and Dove mi trovo in Italian and found them all beautiful. My Italian isn’t fluent, I learned it passively as a child because it was the secret language my mother and grandmother used for adult conversations. So I have no knowledge of grammar rules—I just say sentences as I think I heard them in my childhood. In a way, perhaps my Italian is like Lahiri’s Bengali—childlike, even though it isn’t my mother tongue. But I do enjoy reading fiction and poetry in Italian from time to time.
I followed the link to Kellman’s article about Lahiri and found it unnecessarily negative. And this question by Kellman—"Or will she take up the discipline of yet another defamiliarizing language, such as Finnish or Amharic?"—seems rather ridiculous. What kind of gratuitous or flippant remark is that? She has no connection to either of those languages. Lahiri has spoken about choosing Italian because she became passionate about it in her youth.
Thanks so much for your thoughtful response and critique. On trauma: obviously, trauma is a word that has a lot of connotations, particularly in today's day and age, so I appreciate what you're saying about it being perhaps too strong here. As far as Lahiri, as I said in another comment, I'm a big fan of her work and think she's a beautiful and profound writer—in both English and Italian. I understand what you're saying about the Kellman article, but I think there are articles that take a different tone and deal with a similar topic, like this one: https://hopscotchtranslation.com/2024/03/26/privilege-authority-and-the-authorial-self/. That said, I'll definitely think more about these points. Thank you again for reading!
"Language learning, in my mind, was simply a version of the old adage: Wherever you go, there you are. Yes, maybe you expressed yourself differently, limited in some ways by your capacity or your linguistic context, but ultimately, there was still an Essential Self that came through." That's so true. I liken it to moving to a new apartment. At first, everything is new, shiny, bright, and clean, and you feel like this time you can really start with a clean slate. But then you bring all your luggage and inevitably your old self moves in as well :)
I really felt what you have written. I moved to Italy from Cuba 8 years ago. In my case I feel both language spanish and italian like my mother language and with both i have a love/hate relationship. I would like to say more because your essay descrive perfectly the ocean of emotion that I have but in english is little limited for me.
ma se ti va, puoi assolutamente spiegarmelo anche in italiano! :) comunque sono molto contenta che abbia trovato qualcosa di vero nel mio pezzo.
È bizzarro come la lingua che scegliamo parlare abbia una memoria tutta sua fatta da ricordi e esperienza che a sua volta sono fatte dalle parole che meglio descrivono ciò che proviamo. Scegliamo le parole con cura perché ogni una è un pezzetto di noi. Per questo credo che tendiamo a sentire più vicino o più distaccato una lingua piuttosto che un altra finché non impariamo del tutto tutte le sue sfumature.
The nuance plus succinct eloquence of this write-up is 100/10! So many thoughtful gems in this piece that I’ll be coming back to as I go into year three of my own Italian language learning journey and keep traveling back-forth between the U.S./Italy.
Lovely read, could very much relate to what you describe as feeling free “to feel and write” in Italian. Being a Portuguese native, your text made me realise that I to “feel and write” with less weight than when I do in Portuguese. But to master one’s own native language in a way can be very liberating and healing no? I love this subject. Thank you.